Comments on: I Love Eurovision http://davecole.org/blog/2005/05/21/i-love-eurovision/ Dave Cole's thoughts on politics, culture and modern life. Fri, 30 Jul 2010 04:50:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: El Dave. http://davecole.org/blog/2005/05/21/i-love-eurovision/comment-page-1/#comment-30 El Dave. Tue, 24 May 2005 22:38:00 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=54#comment-30 Nice to think that my blog has any influence, though...<br/><br/>xD. Nice to think that my blog has any influence, though…

xD.

]]> By: El Dave. http://davecole.org/blog/2005/05/21/i-love-eurovision/comment-page-1/#comment-29 El Dave. Tue, 24 May 2005 22:37:00 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=54#comment-29 Fair enough. I certainly don't connect Jewishness and Judaism as you suggest I do; I merely say that some would.<br/><br/>xD. Fair enough. I certainly don’t connect Jewishness and Judaism as you suggest I do; I merely say that some would.

xD.

]]> By: Meaders http://davecole.org/blog/2005/05/21/i-love-eurovision/comment-page-1/#comment-28 Meaders Tue, 24 May 2005 16:45:00 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=54#comment-28 Dave,<br/><br/>Agree with Pabs. It's serious error to think (as you appear to) that "being Jewish" and "Judaism" are necessarily the same thing. Of course not; or how else could you be, say, a Jewish atheist? Ditto for "being Jewish"="supporting Israel", as Pabs covered.<br/><br/>If Israel's actions lead to antisemitism, it's our job as progressive types to <em>very</em> clearly differentiate. There should be no equation made on our part between Jewishness and what Israel does - even if Israel's rulers attempt to claim otherwise. What you've written in this post, I'm sorry to say, simply adds to the confusion. Dave,

Agree with Pabs. It’s serious error to think (as you appear to) that “being Jewish” and “Judaism” are necessarily the same thing. Of course not; or how else could you be, say, a Jewish atheist? Ditto for “being Jewish”=”supporting Israel”, as Pabs covered.

If Israel’s actions lead to antisemitism, it’s our job as progressive types to very clearly differentiate. There should be no equation made on our part between Jewishness and what Israel does – even if Israel’s rulers attempt to claim otherwise. What you’ve written in this post, I’m sorry to say, simply adds to the confusion.

]]> By: El Dave. http://davecole.org/blog/2005/05/21/i-love-eurovision/comment-page-1/#comment-27 El Dave. Mon, 23 May 2005 06:52:00 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=54#comment-27 That is all very true, but if you ask your average Joe on the street, they don't know that. While the philosophy behind it may be different, Zionism is, in the popular mind, a connector of the State of Israel and Judaism.<br/><br/>I suppose what I'm saying is that the actions of the State of Israel lead to an anti-Semitic response in some instances.<br/><br/>xD. That is all very true, but if you ask your average Joe on the street, they don’t know that. While the philosophy behind it may be different, Zionism is, in the popular mind, a connector of the State of Israel and Judaism.

I suppose what I’m saying is that the actions of the State of Israel lead to an anti-Semitic response in some instances.

xD.

]]> By: The Human Tide http://davecole.org/blog/2005/05/21/i-love-eurovision/comment-page-1/#comment-26 The Human Tide Sun, 22 May 2005 17:15:00 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=54#comment-26 Dave-O,<br/> Zionism need not involve religion and usually doesn't. Theodor Herzl was basically secular and wanted to build a version of Vienna in Palestine rather than resurect David's Kingdom. Hardliners like the Revisionists under Jabotinsky certainly adopted some pretty fundamentalist, messianic language but it was more like a secular fascism than religious fundamentalism. The impression is compounded in the talk of a 'historical homeland' which sounds like its religious but often is just [pseudo] historical or the treatment of the Bible as a historical document. Interestingly there are some Orthodox religious groups, including some living inside Israel, who deny Israel's right to exist on the basis that apparently Jews can only return to the promised land once God forgives them and can't just take it back by immigration and force when they feel like it. <br/>Finally theres the whole element of territorial maximalism and the desire to establish Eretz Israel from the Mediteranean to the Jordan River and the Sinai to the Golan [see for example Mr. Sharon, Butcher of Sabra and Chatilla] which is often bound up in the language of redemption through working the land etc but again has more in common with an often leftist nationalism as embodied in the Kibbutz than anything else.<br/>peace out,<br/><br/>Pabs Dave-O,
Zionism need not involve religion and usually doesn’t. Theodor Herzl was basically secular and wanted to build a version of Vienna in Palestine rather than resurect David’s Kingdom. Hardliners like the Revisionists under Jabotinsky certainly adopted some pretty fundamentalist, messianic language but it was more like a secular fascism than religious fundamentalism. The impression is compounded in the talk of a ‘historical homeland’ which sounds like its religious but often is just [pseudo] historical or the treatment of the Bible as a historical document. Interestingly there are some Orthodox religious groups, including some living inside Israel, who deny Israel’s right to exist on the basis that apparently Jews can only return to the promised land once God forgives them and can’t just take it back by immigration and force when they feel like it.
Finally theres the whole element of territorial maximalism and the desire to establish Eretz Israel from the Mediteranean to the Jordan River and the Sinai to the Golan [see for example Mr. Sharon, Butcher of Sabra and Chatilla] which is often bound up in the language of redemption through working the land etc but again has more in common with an often leftist nationalism as embodied in the Kibbutz than anything else.
peace out,

Pabs

]]>