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	<title>Comments on: The myth of victims&#8217; rights</title>
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	<link>http://davecole.org/blog/2007/08/25/the-myth-of-victims-rights/</link>
	<description>Thoughts, notes and comments</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 10:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: davecole.org &#187; blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The right answer, the wrong reason</title>
		<link>http://davecole.org/blog/2007/08/25/the-myth-of-victims-rights/#comment-980</link>
		<dc:creator>davecole.org &#187; blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The right answer, the wrong reason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 21:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davecole.org/blog/?p=340#comment-980</guid>
		<description>[...] Philip Lawrence; on his release, he will not be deported to Italy, as reported by the BBC. I wrote about it at the time, as did the Ministry of Truth. The case has similarities, although I think there is greater [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Philip Lawrence; on his release, he will not be deported to Italy, as reported by the BBC. I wrote about it at the time, as did the Ministry of Truth. The case has similarities, although I think there is greater [...]</p>
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		<title>By: El Dave.</title>
		<link>http://davecole.org/blog/2007/08/25/the-myth-of-victims-rights/#comment-307</link>
		<dc:creator>El Dave.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 23:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davecole.org/blog/?p=340#comment-307</guid>
		<description>You sort of did when you said "human right".&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;It is just as possible that France and Spain are lax in their application of human rights legislation as it is that the UK is overzealous. You have only attacked an outcome that you don't like, and not given any of the argument that leads up to your - for want of a better word - conclusion. If his choice had been return to, say, a warzone, I'd hope you'd concede that deporting him would be wrong. Then again, I'd hope that removing someone from their family and support group (which are important in preventing re-offending) to a country where he is more likely to be isolated, given that he speaks no Italian, would be a bit of a no-brainer.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The 'signing away our sovereignty' argument is fallacious. Firstly, we can withdraw at any time. Secondly, we can derogate, so the argument about not being able to use a nuclear option doesn't apply. Thirdly, the Washington Treaty was signed the year before the ECHR (1949 as opposed to 1950) and has far more wide-ranging sovereignty issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You sort of did when you said &#8220;human right&#8221;.</p>
<p>It is just as possible that France and Spain are lax in their application of human rights legislation as it is that the UK is overzealous. You have only attacked an outcome that you don&#8217;t like, and not given any of the argument that leads up to your - for want of a better word - conclusion. If his choice had been return to, say, a warzone, I&#8217;d hope you&#8217;d concede that deporting him would be wrong. Then again, I&#8217;d hope that removing someone from their family and support group (which are important in preventing re-offending) to a country where he is more likely to be isolated, given that he speaks no Italian, would be a bit of a no-brainer.</p>
<p>The &#8217;signing away our sovereignty&#8217; argument is fallacious. Firstly, we can withdraw at any time. Secondly, we can derogate, so the argument about not being able to use a nuclear option doesn&#8217;t apply. Thirdly, the Washington Treaty was signed the year before the ECHR (1949 as opposed to 1950) and has far more wide-ranging sovereignty issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Kris</title>
		<link>http://davecole.org/blog/2007/08/25/the-myth-of-victims-rights/#comment-306</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 22:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davecole.org/blog/?p=340#comment-306</guid>
		<description>Please may I clarify. I have not said that the HRA is the issue. I am well aware that we signed over our sovereignty in respect of the matter with the signing up to the ECHR. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Nevertheless, I would not be so quick to sneer at the HRA critics in any event. Funny how France and Spain are also signed up to the ECHR and don't appear to share our angst re the rights of murderers and other crims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please may I clarify. I have not said that the HRA is the issue. I am well aware that we signed over our sovereignty in respect of the matter with the signing up to the ECHR. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, I would not be so quick to sneer at the HRA critics in any event. Funny how France and Spain are also signed up to the ECHR and don&#8217;t appear to share our angst re the rights of murderers and other crims.</p>
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		<title>By: Sir James Robison</title>
		<link>http://davecole.org/blog/2007/08/25/the-myth-of-victims-rights/#comment-305</link>
		<dc:creator>Sir James Robison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://davecole.org/blog/?p=340#comment-305</guid>
		<description>This last is true - it's how close one is to the crime which determines the ability to demand certain things be done. The point about transferring the problem to Italy when it's questionable that Italy is the right place, given his background is another conundrum.  It's a curly one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This last is true - it&#8217;s how close one is to the crime which determines the ability to demand certain things be done. The point about transferring the problem to Italy when it&#8217;s questionable that Italy is the right place, given his background is another conundrum.  It&#8217;s a curly one.</p>
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