Comments on: Mayor Johnson, or how I learned to stop worrying and love the bendy bus http://davecole.org/blog/2008/09/15/mayor-johnson-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-bendy-bus/ Dave Cole's thoughts on politics, culture and modern life. Tue, 09 Mar 2010 15:51:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: dave http://davecole.org/blog/2008/09/15/mayor-johnson-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-bendy-bus/comment-page-1/#comment-1846 dave Fri, 14 Nov 2008 05:18:59 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=834#comment-1846 Paul, I absolutely agree. I have some FoI requests in with TfL at the moment about passenger loading times; stay tuned for more info! xD. Paul,

I absolutely agree. I have some FoI requests in with TfL at the moment about passenger loading times; stay tuned for more info!

xD.

]]> By: Paul http://davecole.org/blog/2008/09/15/mayor-johnson-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-bendy-bus/comment-page-1/#comment-1838 Paul Wed, 12 Nov 2008 12:57:20 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=834#comment-1838 I use the 521 every day from London Bridge to Holborn and I can't see how any other bus can cope with the demand unless they want to treble the number out on the road. A bendy bus can arrive at a major station empty and be filled to capacity in under a minute. Often it will be on it's way seconds later. A couple of minutes after that there is already a crowd building up for the next 521 which will only be a few minutes away. The only way to get from London Bridge to High Holborn faster is by bike. I use the 521 every day from London Bridge to Holborn and I can’t see how any other bus can cope with the demand unless they want to treble the number out on the road.

A bendy bus can arrive at a major station empty and be filled to capacity in under a minute. Often it will be on it’s way seconds later. A couple of minutes after that there is already a crowd building up for the next 521 which will only be a few minutes away.

The only way to get from London Bridge to High Holborn faster is by bike.

]]> By: Whose vanity is fairest? « Confessions of a Political Animal http://davecole.org/blog/2008/09/15/mayor-johnson-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-bendy-bus/comment-page-1/#comment-1727 Whose vanity is fairest? « Confessions of a Political Animal Wed, 24 Sep 2008 13:37:32 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=834#comment-1727 [...] is nostalgia, not common sense. Well known fact. (Dave Cole makes the case for bendy buses well here - I seem to remember predicting during the Mayoral election that the 521 and the Strand underpass [...] [...] is nostalgia, not common sense. Well known fact. (Dave Cole makes the case for bendy buses well here - I seem to remember predicting during the Mayoral election that the 521 and the Strand underpass [...]

]]> By: dave http://davecole.org/blog/2008/09/15/mayor-johnson-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-bendy-bus/comment-page-1/#comment-1715 dave Wed, 17 Sep 2008 13:38:04 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=834#comment-1715 Mike, No, they're not. They're really enjoyable to ride on. You see? It's subjective. In any case, they are best used for short journeys where that horribility is not the issue, but ease of use and speed of boarding. I accept that you could jump on and off the Routemaster. I happen to know you personally and know that you walk perfectly well and without disability. If, say, you used a wheelchair, you would not be able to hop off a Routemaster, in no small part because you wouldn't have been able to board it in the first place. I don't think the extra effort in making you walk an extra couple of hundred yards between bus stops so that a lot of people can use buses at all. Your final sentence reminds me rather of the scientist, the philosopher and the mathematician going to a conference in Edinburgh. As they cross the border in the train, they look out of a window and see a black sheep. 'Look', says the philosopher. 'All sheep are black'. 'No', says the scientist. 'All <i>Scottish</i> sheep are black. The mathematician sighed and said 'No, there is in Scotland at least one field in which there is at least one sheep that is black'. While many of the roads in London are not suitable for bendies, not all buses are unsuitable. I would say that Horseferry Road (where I catch the 507) is ideal; long, straight and with relatively little traffic and no other buses. As I said above, I don't think sending bendy buses down Charing Cross Road and right at Cambridge Circus into Shaftesbury Avenue. You could also say that the problem is the passenger density of vehicles on London roads that causes the problem, but that would lead you to further restrictions on cars traveling in London. xD. Mike,

No, they’re not. They’re really enjoyable to ride on. You see? It’s subjective. In any case, they are best used for short journeys where that horribility is not the issue, but ease of use and speed of boarding.

I accept that you could jump on and off the Routemaster. I happen to know you personally and know that you walk perfectly well and without disability. If, say, you used a wheelchair, you would not be able to hop off a Routemaster, in no small part because you wouldn’t have been able to board it in the first place. I don’t think the extra effort in making you walk an extra couple of hundred yards between bus stops so that a lot of people can use buses at all.

Your final sentence reminds me rather of the scientist, the philosopher and the mathematician going to a conference in Edinburgh. As they cross the border in the train, they look out of a window and see a black sheep.

‘Look’, says the philosopher. ‘All sheep are black’.

‘No’, says the scientist. ‘All Scottish sheep are black.

The mathematician sighed and said ‘No, there is in Scotland at least one field in which there is at least one sheep that is black’.

While many of the roads in London are not suitable for bendies, not all buses are unsuitable. I would say that Horseferry Road (where I catch the 507) is ideal; long, straight and with relatively little traffic and no other buses. As I said above, I don’t think sending bendy buses down Charing Cross Road and right at Cambridge Circus into Shaftesbury Avenue. You could also say that the problem is the passenger density of vehicles on London roads that causes the problem, but that would lead you to further restrictions on cars traveling in London.

xD.

]]> By: Mike http://davecole.org/blog/2008/09/15/mayor-johnson-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-bendy-bus/comment-page-1/#comment-1714 Mike Wed, 17 Sep 2008 11:52:34 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=834#comment-1714 But they are just horrible, horrible to ride on. The Routemaster was so much better and you could hop off whenever you felt bored. Plus the layout of London's streets make the bendy bus an inappropriate choice. But they are just horrible, horrible to ride on. The Routemaster was so much better and you could hop off whenever you felt bored. Plus the layout of London’s streets make the bendy bus an inappropriate choice.

]]> By: Political Animal http://davecole.org/blog/2008/09/15/mayor-johnson-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-bendy-bus/comment-page-1/#comment-1712 Political Animal Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:10:26 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=834#comment-1712 D'oh! Should have noticed the figures were a bit on the low side for a year! D’oh! Should have noticed the figures were a bit on the low side for a year!

]]> By: dave http://davecole.org/blog/2008/09/15/mayor-johnson-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-bendy-bus/comment-page-1/#comment-1710 dave Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:37:33 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=834#comment-1710 That's 'per four week period' not 'per year'. Either way, it would suggest that, if the ridership of bendies is comparable to the aggregate for all London bus routes, slightly less than a quarter of people are required to touch the Oyster reader. However, the assertion is that lots of people are travelling without paying on these particular routes, which would make the comparison invalid. Once the asserted reason for that has gone, we will be able to see whether it was true or not. xD. That’s ‘per four week period’ not ‘per year’. Either way, it would suggest that, if the ridership of bendies is comparable to the aggregate for all London bus routes, slightly less than a quarter of people are required to touch the Oyster reader.

However, the assertion is that lots of people are travelling without paying on these particular routes, which would make the comparison invalid. Once the asserted reason for that has gone, we will be able to see whether it was true or not.

xD.

]]> By: Political Animal http://davecole.org/blog/2008/09/15/mayor-johnson-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-bendy-bus/comment-page-1/#comment-1709 Political Animal Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:25:46 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=834#comment-1709 Trying to estimate fare evasion on bendies from simple observation is even less accurate than has been suggested - its not just people with physical card travelcards or paper tickets purchased from the roadside machines who doesn't have to touch in, but anyone at all with a period ticket loaded on their Oyster. This includes travelcards and bus passes (except day travelcards/passes) or under-16 free bus travel photocards. The only people who need to touch-in on a bendy bus are those using Oyster pay-as-you-go. The graph on page 26 of <a href="http://origin.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/corporate/London-Travel-Report-2007-final.pdf" rel="nofollow">this TfL document</a> shows that pay-as-you-go accounts for only around 30,000 of the 135,000 journeys made on TfL services each year, so the proportion touching in should be quite small. Speaking personally - I never touch in on a bendy as I have a monthly travelcard on my Oyster. Better to go with actual figures than anecdotal evidence on this, I think. Edited by Dave to add in hyperlink. Trying to estimate fare evasion on bendies from simple observation is even less accurate than has been suggested – its not just people with physical card travelcards or paper tickets purchased from the roadside machines who doesn’t have to touch in, but anyone at all with a period ticket loaded on their Oyster. This includes travelcards and bus passes (except day travelcards/passes) or under-16 free bus travel photocards. The only people who need to touch-in on a bendy bus are those using Oyster pay-as-you-go. The graph on page 26 of this TfL document shows that pay-as-you-go accounts for only around 30,000 of the 135,000 journeys made on TfL services each year, so the proportion touching in should be quite small. Speaking personally – I never touch in on a bendy as I have a monthly travelcard on my Oyster. Better to go with actual figures than anecdotal evidence on this, I think.

Edited by Dave to add in hyperlink.

]]> By: dave http://davecole.org/blog/2008/09/15/mayor-johnson-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-bendy-bus/comment-page-1/#comment-1707 dave Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:48:36 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=834#comment-1707 I'm glad you agree; a lot of the complaints are from people who aren't really affected by bendies. As to fare dodging; Oyster isn't accepted on all trains in London and so quite a lot of people still have cardboard passes, particularly those who travel on the 507 and 521 routes. I know there is anecdotal evidence that the 38 and 73 have higher rates of fare evasion. The proof of the pudding, though, will be in the eating. When bendies are phased out, we will be able to see if there is a change in ridership or fares collected. xD. I’m glad you agree; a lot of the complaints are from people who aren’t really affected by bendies. As to fare dodging; Oyster isn’t accepted on all trains in London and so quite a lot of people still have cardboard passes, particularly those who travel on the 507 and 521 routes. I know there is anecdotal evidence that the 38 and 73 have higher rates of fare evasion. The proof of the pudding, though, will be in the eating. When bendies are phased out, we will be able to see if there is a change in ridership or fares collected.

xD.

]]> By: SilverTiger http://davecole.org/blog/2008/09/15/mayor-johnson-or-how-i-learned-to-stop-worrying-and-love-the-bendy-bus/comment-page-1/#comment-1706 SilverTiger Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:41:53 +0000 http://davecole.org/blog/?p=834#comment-1706 I too like the bendy buses and think it a mistake to remove them. Many of the criticisms levelled at them are quite wrong - often made by people who don't actually use them or by motorists who, ideally, shouldn't be driving in the city anyway. I think fare dodging is</em> an issue. When I ride on a bendy I always watch incoming passengers to see who produces a ticket and who doesn't. Many don't and these can't all be people with cardboard travel cards or Plus Bus rail tickets. A more positive inspection system might help alleviate this to a certain extent. The advantages of the bendy bus can be seen in the fact that other cities have taken them up and not only in Britain: we travelled on a bendy last week in Paris. I shall be sorry to see them go. I think their removal will turn out to be an expensive mistake. I do wish politicians would learn to do what is right for the people and the community, not what fits some political dogma or other. But that is like wishing for the proverbial flying pigs. I too like the bendy buses and think it a mistake to remove them. Many of the criticisms levelled at them are quite wrong – often made by people who don’t actually use them or by motorists who, ideally, shouldn’t be driving in the city anyway.

I think fare dodging is an issue. When I ride on a bendy I always watch incoming passengers to see who produces a ticket and who doesn’t. Many don’t and these can’t all be people with cardboard travel cards or Plus Bus rail tickets. A more positive inspection system might help alleviate this to a certain extent.

The advantages of the bendy bus can be seen in the fact that other cities have taken them up and not only in Britain: we travelled on a bendy last week in Paris.

I shall be sorry to see them go. I think their removal will turn out to be an expensive mistake.

I do wish politicians would learn to do what is right for the people and the community, not what fits some political dogma or other. But that is like wishing for the proverbial flying pigs.

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